Episode 128: How to Stop Doing Internet Marketing the HARD WAY – with James Carter

Episode 128: How to Stop Doing Internet Marketing the HARD WAY – with James Carter

Mike: Hi there everyone! Welcome to Episode 128 of the Mike from Maine Show, the place where we do daily interviews with successful online entrepreneurs. This is your host, Mike Thomas. And today on the show, I have James Carter on to talk about outsourcing. He’s got a product called The Outsource System where he’s able to give you templates and videos that you can use to train your employees. Now, for me personally, this is something that I do myself. I create all my training videos. I create all the templates. But it is time consuming and his product is a way of taking away the pain of having to create it all and just having it done for you. Also, he talks about the whole outsourcing process, where to find people, how to find people that will do it for cheap. So if you haven’t done outsourcing before, this is definitely going to something that you might be interested in. Let’s get right into it with James Carter.

Mike: We are here today with James Carter. James, welcome to the show! James: Hey, Mike. Thanks for having me.

Mike: Let’s start of as we always do. And why don’t you tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got involved in this thing called Internet Marketing.

James: Oh, man. Wow, we’ll see. I pretty much started way back in about 2003. And I didn’t start with Internet Marketing, I actually started will Multi-Level Marketing, MLM, okay. And I — you know I started, I was working in couple of companies and I just believe that, you know, when you start in MLM you have to go out and talk to people and try to get them into your business. And I kind of felt like there was an easiest, easier way to do it. I felt like that, okay, there has to be a way for me to seat on this computer and you know, get people to sign up for my business. So, that kind of led me into internet marketing.

Mike: One second, what kind of MLM thing were you doing at that time?

James: I started off with CAN, it was the phone company, okay. And it was – I mean, you know when you go home, trying to make money for yourself when you work for somebody else you know, there’s a big mind shift or mind dust. And when I made like — I mean, my first check was $ 12.50. I thought that was the best thing on the planet. You know, but I really started to say okay, there has to be away to, you know get people to sign up to my business without me having to go out and talk to people all the time. Which I don’t want to do that. Even though I could, I just don’t want to do that. I felt that it was, you know, it’s just wasn’t necessary. So, that is what lead me over to the internet marketing.

Mike: Okay.

James: Well, I’m also assure. I felt that with a few MLMs, but kept going with Internet Marketing. Knowing how people were you know, selling information products things like that. And pretty much, what really started happening was you know, I fell into the trap. I started buying every product of how to make money online, how to make money online.

Mike: Give us, give us a time frame. What year, about what year are we in when you first started doing this? James: That’s 2003.
Mike: Okay. So it’s been 10 years.

James: 2003 is when I first started. And pretty much I struggled for about three years. And you know, I just had my first daughter then and there was you know, trying to figure things out. I knew that I wanted to do things differently, want to be involved in her life. You know, be there. You know, to build my family, raise them well. It’s really quite about my family, me and my wife. And I just really said, okay I’ve got to find away to make this work. The transitioning started happening into Internet Marketing in 2005, 2006 where pretty much there was an opportunity that was available online that no one really understood, but I understood it. And what started happening, I started to make all these different videos and things like that. And it should be told, I didn’t know that I was doing what you know, they tell me to do, to build a business online. I was just doing, I was only helping people out. And so, I had a forum and I was making these videos, tutorials, to show people how to do it. People who was asking me for help, I said hey get on to this list and I you know, send out updates. You know, it was totally not what you get nor know about. It was just – you know, I was just doing this because I felt like this is what I should have been doing.

Mike: Cool.

James: Well, I eventually started having people asking me for more help. So I said okay, I’m going to create a course. And the funny thing here is, Mike, is I was doing a product launch sequence before product launch became popular. And I didn’t know that. I mean, after two weeks and you know, I didn’t tell you. After two weeks to you know, plan the thing out and I was sending people updates, every few days or something like that. And then I’ll set a date where okay, it’s gonna be live on those dates. Well, I’m going to be honest with you, I came from very, very humble beginnings. Wow, you know things I wouldn’t wish I knew about. You know, I’m talking about things where you know, I used to have to warm my water up in a microwave to wash up. You know stuff like that. I mean just so, to come from a place of humble beginnings where you don’t know anything about money, you never thought about money, anything like that. And then, I launched this first product and in 48 hours, I do $ 6000. In 48 hours –

Mike: Nice.

James: Yeah, it was you know, at that time to be honest what makes the success so sweet is that at this time I’m staying at my mother lost condo. I mean, a 12×13 room and this room is my office / the baby’s room / the bedroom / music studio / everything. So I mean, everything is part of this one wall and I’m sitting next to one little computer desk and in 48 hours, I made $6000.

Mike: Well, what was the first product?

James: It was a tutorial course on investing in a certain opportunities. Opportunity, originally I would tell you, which was terrible but that’s what it was. It was an investing in a particular opportunity that I was on. And what would happen was that, after that it was like, it was unbelievable. You know, I mean, people still can believe that okay, I could set up this computer, my computer and get a check to company. And from that point right there is where things will start to take off on next maybe 5 months, 5-6 months, I pretty much went into 5 figures per month. You know, selling information a lot.

Mike: But that’s a pretty quick transition.
James: Yeah, it was like it just took off. You know, things just clicked for me and it just took off to go.
Mike: And that was since 2005 was that right?
James: 2005, 2006. In that arena. The days are stills fuzzy to me but, it’s like in that time frame. 2005, 2006.

Mike: And throughout this, I mean it’s a long time period. And if you’re anything like me, there are time periods when you’re, you have your ups and there are time periods when you have your downs. There’s things you find that work great for awhile and then, they stop working. Can you tell us first something about that you have tried that failed and then, something that you tried that worked really well.

James: Wow. Okay. Well, I’ll tell you this. One of the things that I did do right after that, how I got part of the income going was I had a list and I had a database of customers. But what happened was that there was a company that came out and they have a very unique opportunities. And it was kind of, you know a long lines of MLMs, I still kinda have my fingers on that a little bit. There is a couple of them. And what would happened was I helped build this company out and this is where the residual money was coming from every month, where I get to about 500 per month. It was a – I mean, it was a very unique opportunity. Unfortunately, what have happened was the owner of the company was doing things that just wasn’t right. It was out of hand. And so, that was 80% of my income. Well, eventually he was up with the money and to be honest, I could probably say I am still owed for at least $40,000.

Mike: And you won’t probably, most definitely never see that money.

James: It’s in the past, as far as I’m concerned. So, I tried that and it did work for a moment but then it failed. One of the things that I tried to do that I could probably say that I failed at is trying to do too much of everything. That makes sense at all. You know, instead of becoming a specialist in one area. I’ve never done good to be honest at SEO. It’s just — I mean, I would give a keyword out there and like, I’m there and then, like 2 hours later you’d be like, where to go? You know?

Mike: I think, we’ve al — most of us have had that happened to us.

James: Okay, you know. I’ve always failed at SEO. Things that I’ve tried that I’ve been really good at that I think I can teach and will be good at is you know, helping people having a unique perspectives and simplifying the complicated. And you know, breaking it

down to act on simple steps for people, so that they can get results. That’s what I’ve been good at and pretty much now that’s kind of one of the areas that I’m really starting to focus in now.

Mike: Is most of your money nowadays — like, you’re fulltime on the internet now, right? James: Right.

Mike: Is most of your money coming now from product creation? Or from — I guess, not from SEO but where is most of your income coming from?

James: Mostly, product creation. Right now, mostly product creation. There’s a few things that I do. One of the things that I do, I do trade in markets. So, that’s part of my income as well. But mainly, product creation. I’ll tell you the truth. Right now, I’m kind of in a transitional period where you know, being online this long and you learn some things, some things that you know how to do but just because you can’t do them, don’t mean you like to do them. You know, if I need make some money online, I can make money online. I can sell some products or something like that. I think there comes a point where, when you start to really live the purpose and you know, that’s kind of the place I find myself in now. We’re okay. I don’t want just wanted to make some money online, I wanted to do something that has meaning and value that something that will outlast me. And so, that area right now is kind of one of those I’ve got to take a leap of faith kinda thing because over here, I know this is secure, I know I can you know, create products and add the email and make some money. Over here, you know I need test and I need to figure out. I don’t even know if the market wants this. You know, and if it doesn’t, you know my kids do have to eat, my bills have to be paid. You know, that kind of thing. So, you know that’s kind of where I find myself now, kinda saying okay this over here is really powerful and close to my heart. But this over here, is comfortable. And I’m going to be honest, I am pretty much said okay, I know I can’t stay here. I’ve got to go, I’ve got to go. So, that’s pretty much where I find myself now.

Mike: Are you able to make that transition now? Are you able to — have you found anything where you can go from that money side to the I guess more of the value side, the longer lasting, create something that you can really be proud of side?

James: Yeah. Actually, I’m doing it now. It’s one of those things that you know, I have treated lightly but I think — and I know we’ll get into this part a little bit later, you know there’s so many issues that I see online and that I see with people that struggle online. And we all have challenges, no matter what level you get to, you still have challenges. But one of the things that I can think and see is you know, just this redundant cycle of you know, this failure after failure. Personally, I don’t think it has to be that way. And so, when I say this is the thing I’m reach for in a year, I think that there is a better way to build businesses online. I think that you know, you are — I think one of the main issues is when people are purchasing information. They are purchasing information based on the notion that this guy has all this houses and cars, he’s showing them all this stuff in his video and his account is showing them this and that. These guys never take into account the fact that okay, the person that they’re selling it to has a family or this person works 12 hours a days, you know this person is in community for 3 hours a day. You know, and when they get home, they’re like all tired. You know, so I think that there are better ways to build businesses but when those people purchase the information, the first problem is when you purchase it, everything is tailored to say okay, you need to do this and you need to do that, you need to do this and you need to do that. And so, by the time they can initiate to do anything, it’s two weeks that passed or you know, they’re not seeing results and then, they’re being directed to the next step. My passion now is to say okay, I want to be able to help that guy that okay, he has two kids, he has to go to work, he’s gonna be at work for 10 hours. He come home, he’s tired. You know, he needs an exercise. Like, maybe an extra hundred dollars a month in disposable income. Okay, for that guy, let me show you what you need to be doing to build a business online. You know, many take into real account that okay, this person over here, they may have to pay for the light bill this month and they don’t have money for the light bill. You know, these things are never taken into account when creating a product or really getting in that person’s shoes and that’s kind of where my passion is now. I’m going to say, listen. Okay, let’s do with the real world not this paid crap that you see on you know — I’m sorry, I shouldn’t say crap.

Mike: Crap is fine. You can say crap.

James: Alright. This pictures that you see over and over. You know, sitting on the beach, you know something like that. It’s like okay, let’s get into the real situation of you know, that grandma who needs paper mats for you know, their motherhood, they’re single mom. And she needs something to work for. That’s kinda where I’m looking now and say okay, not only will I create the training, but I’m also gonna give you tools, so then you can start right into it in just you know, walk right into it and start seeing results as quickly as possible.

Mike: You’ve recently come out with a product and I think that this might tie into kinda what you’re saying here. We didn’t — you all watching and listening, we didn’t play on this but you have your Outsource System which — why don’t you tell us a little bit about what that is.

James: You know, some people, they create things just to sell them.

Mike: Yeah.

James: Okay. A lot of my product creation doesn’t come from just to sell it. A lot of my product creation come from my frustration of another product or a lack of a product. And so back in 2010, I was living in South Carolina, we were done there for some Ministry efforts. And you know, it was just one of those times where I was like okay, I mean man everything that — I mean, every skill that you have to do online, I can do it. I can write copy and go. If you get what I’m saying, I don’t wanna do this stuff. You know, I’m just you know, I got so many ideas, so much creativity, I just wanna create. So —

Mike: Yeah.

James: I originally came out with a thought that say okay, I wanna be able — if I get an idea, I wanna be able to send an email and get that thing going and see the results of that. And so, that’s what led me to say okay, I need to start getting people, I need to start developing the thing. But if I get in you know, I don’t wanna spend all day trying. I wanna be able to point them somewhere as a business dinosaur and so forth and they give back to me. And basically, really start to pursue this lifestyle of freedom that you know, that all of us are aspiring to pursue for doing this lot of stuff. And so, that’s what led me to it. I reach out and start looking around for some other products and you know, I’m not gonna you know name the names, anything like that. You know, these guys are wonderful guys but I felt that when I purchased these products, it was supposed to help me with what I wanted. I thought it was lacking. You know, I felt the amount of money that I paid for was you know okay, you know this should be a little bit better than this. So, that’s when I looked around the market place and nobody else would have anything, you know. And I said okay, this is probably where I can step in. You know, I come from a background of a lot of server, you know I can search and stuff like that. So, a lot of administration and search and stuff like that. So, you know it was very customary where I have to create training and I have to do it in a you know, where if I gotta teach them to it you know, kids and something like that. So, first you do this, then you do that you know, solid support. So, that’s when I said okay, I’m gonna create my own training. Well, I created it for me. You know, I created it for me. And then, I turn around and said, man this probably — I knew if I’m frustrated, maybe there are other people who would see the value in this and this is back in 2011. And so I said okay, I’m just going to put it out there and I mean, I put it out there and it was no big launch stuff, no big promotion, no big hyp. The thing just caught up light, you know people found out about it and people just start signing up. And so, I took it off the market and then, I just recently you know, we did some updates to it and just put it back on the market where you know now, it’s a site where if you don’t know a thing about outsourcing but you wanna get something done, I have some very simple template system where all you have to do is just step in, decide what you wanna get done, download the template. There’s parts of the template that is highlighted in yellow, you just modify those parts and it’s all worth it. And that’s it, because all the training is already done for the work. They’re logging into the training area, watch the videos and they can get done with the tasks that you wanted to do.

Mike: Yeah. From looking at it, I see that like okay, you have explanations for specific task and then you can kind of copy and paste and you can change things around if you want to. And send that out to an outsourcer and they’ll have links to videos explaining exactly how to do things because for me personally — I mean, obviously I’m comfortable doing videos. I have the technology to do what, I know how to record them, I know how to upload them and send them out to my workers and what not. And I’ve done a lot of what this shows, I can do myself. And I feel comfortable doing myself, so — but there are other people that don’t really know how to do it. They would spend a lot of time figuring out a lot of these things, they might not know how to explain it to someone that doesn’t know how to do the task because I know that when you’re explaining something to an outsourcer, especially most of my outsourcers are gonna be speaking English as a second language, so you need to be clear, you need to be concise. You can’t say, oh go pick the good keywords or go pick — write a really good article. Like, make sure this article is SEO-ed correctly. Like, you can’t say things like that. You have to say okay, I want this keyword in there this many times, I want it here, I want it here, I want it in bold. You have to be super specific and you have to be super clear and even after that’s done, usually you have to go back and change a little things.

James: Right, right.

Mike: So, I can see how this could, would be really useful if you don’t necessarily know how to explain these things. We’ve also got here — I’m looking in Section 2: Hiring your employees, where to find your employees, how to post jobs, how to interview them on Skype. It seems like you’ve kind of taken your experience with outsourcing and repackaged it.

James: Yeah, pretty much. Ah, you know, it’s not always pretty. You know, you run in to such situations wherein people disappear, that kind of things. So, one of the things that I’ve done on the training — you know, there’s two sides to it, which you probably have learned it too. There’s one side or the training of other workers. But then, there’s also a side of the training of employees. And in this

training of employees is where I basically give you out of my own experiences. I say okay hey listen, this is how you’re going to make sure that no one steals money from you, this is how you’re going to make sure that you get trying the best possible value for your money. But at the same time, you know understanding that you’re dealing with a human being. You know, you treat him well, you treat him good. When you find one that is like a gem, you hold on to him. You know, do whatever you can do to hold on to him. And then, even on the employee’s side training, what we’ve done is make it so that it’s so flexible where okay, you can come in and you can do it verbatim or you can just say, okay I like this but I want to change this. And the employee or the outsource worker will know, when you hand it to them, they’ll know to look in to the note section of that template or any changes that you may want so that, I mean it really is, it really is a way to say, okay hey listen I don’t want to have to do anything. I’ve got idea. Okay, I need an article written. Okay, great. Here’s my keywords and so forth. Fill it out, send it to the worker and you’re done. And that’s because that’s how I wanted it to work for myself, so.

Mike: Let’s say someone is interested — they’re watching this interview and there’s thing, okay this would be great if have something to outsource like, it’s — do you talk all about how to outsource things and make money from them or is it strictly on a okay, this is how you outsource your business?

James: Well actually, it’s funny that you mentioned it, because actually this week we’re making like a whole lot of updates to the site, so those are things that we’ve been improving like right now. One of the things that we’re going to be doing is actually doing some live training, as well. I said okay, if you don’t have a project or anything like that, you know here are some business models that you can follow to you know begin to outsource and make money from. One of the things that I like to do, everybody talks adsense. I still like adsense I don’t care what anybody says. I like it.

Mike: Adsense is in debt by any means.

James: I like it and I still do it. One of the things that I did do and one of the models that we’re going to put in outsource system was I had a couple of sites that I just had curated content for. And I mean, it was very simple, very easy and one of the templates that we have in there, the mini blog post templates, helps with this. And basically I have to work at just every day. She go in, she find a resource, she write a little bit about it. She knew what to do to make sure that the article was grammatically correct because we have you know a training for that and then she will post the link to the article in the social bookmarking site, that was it. Just from her doing that and the social bookmarking site, we got 100 post from each site. And I’m talking, I’m talking maybe 150-200 words maximum per posts.

Mike: When did you do that?

James: We did this actually about a couple of years ago.

Mike: And are the sites making any money?

James: Actually, I went up selling them.

Mike: How much are you selling it for?

James: Well the site — I’m going to be honest, it was a lazy attempt. It was like we did that and then, we got it along. And within like maybe a couple of months or so, they both together start earning $50-$100. Without I mean –

Mike: Is that a month or a day?

James: A month, a month. It was a month. So I mean, it was nothing to be cry home about. But the thing was that, okay we didn’t do anything else to the site. It was very little interaction but it would mean very little work and then, things start earning money. And it got stronger when the Google Penguin and Panda thing happened and everybody was complaining about it, our sites actually got stronger and I think it was because of the content. You know expressions, things like that. Well eventually, what would happen is you know just those 2 sites I wanted to sell them both to $15,000, so –

Mike: It’s a nice profit.

James: Oh yeah, very nice profit. And that’s not to mention you know, the money I made every month from Adsense. So you know, that model right there alone is one to say okay, that’s what I want to outsource and that’s what we gotta improve in The Outsource System.

Mike: I was going to ask you, what are you currently outsourcing for your business?

James: Okay. That’s a good question. Actually, we do have a – well, I’ll tell you honestly from that question from you. Actually, when I said I am transitioning you know, going more on transitioning now, I’m more transitioning to a software tool. Though, that’s where a lot of my outsources are going now. Basically, taking my ideas and my creativity, turning them into a software tool. And that’s where — that’s pretty much everything that I’m doing now is software slide. Probably, 80% of what I’m doing is software. If I do anything, now I’m going to say this. When it comes to writing content, I am very particular about that. It depends on the project, okay. If it’s something that’s going to really reflect me, I mean like somebody’s going to purchase this, it has to be the best content. So that’s not something I’m gonna to second rate writer. You know, but it was something like I did before, it was this simple little blog posts and things like that, then okay yeah, I’ll outsource that. Actually, I just — we just did a couple of them and besides that, I have to start getting traffic and this is something that I talk about that to get the site going, I spend maybe, maybe 25 bucks. And I’ll spend maybe 25 cent per blog post.

Mike: 25 cents for what? For 200-word blog post? James: Yes. I just him how to — you know, the process — Mike: Is it in Chinese?

James: No. It’s English. And this is something you know, this is something that will come on live but this is one of the reason, like if I have decided I want to get started but I can’t get into it, that’s what I’ll do. I’ll spend like maybe 25-50 bucks, maybe 50 bucks and 25 to 50 cent for blog posts. And I have them schedule it where — they schedule it for me. It goes out three times a day. I have them find images to put with the blog post, so as you know, it’s all good. All good to go.

Mike: It’s interesting. So many people I talked to that have gone to the point — I think, when you’re doing online marketing, internet marketing, in the beginning especially, you really have to scrap and you’re doing everything yourself. You’re writing the content, you’re doing the keyword research, you’re doing this, you’re doing that, you’re doing the marketing, you’re doing everything.

James: Right.

Mike: And I think that is also really important. I think you need to know how difficult things can be. You need to know that when you outsource something to someone and you — then, they’re late with it, you need to know okay, I understand. This is why, because it took me this long to do it. It’s obviously gonna take them a while to do it as well. Like, you need to be able to understand the process before you outsource anything. Like I said before, you can’t say, ‘Oh well, I learned that Squidoo — this guy is making money with Squidoo blogs, so I’m gonna go and outsource my Squidoo sites and okay, make me Squidoo websites that make $10 a day’.

James: Right.
Mike: And like, that’s just not outsource. You need to know everything about it before outsourcing. James: Right. You need to know your process.
Mike: Definitely, but —
James: Know your processes —

Mike: What else I was trying to get through is that the successful people, they do all that in the beginning and then, once they have a little bit of capital, a little bit of money to invest back in, that’s when they have their workers do the menial work for them, the worth that they can outsource. They’re able to kinda sit back a little bit and have a buffer and use that time to like you said, be creative. Like you now are transitioning into doing software, into building software. But you’re not gonna be building the software, are you?

James: No.
Mike: No. You’re gonna be the brains behind this. James: I’m the idea generator.

Mike: And a lot of people I know they’re — and I’m surprised when I hear this. I was really surprised — I don’t know if you know Spencer Haws from nichepursuits.com, he came out with a piece of software called Long Tail Pro. And I thought he had done it all himself. But he’s got a programmer doing it all. And then, there’s Chris Guthrie who puts a lot of different software and he doesn’t build any of it. If he was watching, he’d laugh. I’d say he plays video games and while he’s playing video games, he has his workers doing it for him and then, he markets it. So, I like the way that you’re transitioning your business. I think it’s a direction where people go from one level and then, to a complete different one.

James: You know, I was like this — I remember that like once I started like you know, really getting to outsourcing more, I told my wife and said, if I would have known back six years ago what I know now, I will be in a totally different place now. And you know, one of the things that I see is an issue and this is something that you know, people may not agree with me with on this but this is my perspective. You have so many people that spends so much money on information and there’s nothing wrong with getting information, okay. You need information. But the problem comes in when it just keeps spending money on information and not spending money on activation. That makes sense at all?

Mike: That makes sense.

James: Okay, so. Okay, you get this guy. He’s gonna spend $67 this month on this tool, he spends another $200 on this course and then, he gets pitched for this guru course that’s 2 grand, right. And he will spend that in a month and then next month, he’s gonna got another $300 and they’ll spend maybe another $200 this month and be back for another thousand. Instead of saying okay, wow, You could have taken you know, $150 a day. You could have taken $200 a day. And you could have gotten somebody to do a lot of this menial task fulltime. You know, depending on the task, You know, there’s tasks that you know. And this is my take on, they assess that people do are working 50 cents an hour. I mean, God bless them. You know, when I think about that, it’s like wow. When I you know, post on these jobs that I need done, I need like a bunch of talented crew or something like that. You know, people are doing these jobs for like 40 cents. You know, a menial task. And now, when it comes to stuff like that you know, I tried to give some bonuses and things like that you know, coz I don’t know they’re living condition. But you know, I’m just saying this like okay, if I needed somebody just to — if I have a process to say, this is what you do every day. When this RSS feed comes in and you see this link, you go about this and you submit these links to social bookmarking sites. If I had that process in place every day and there was somebody to do that for me, fulltime at 40 cents per hour, then I’d be spending like 64 bucks a month for promotion for my site, right? Okay, 64 bucks a month for promotion, for activating you know on — or taking action on you know my business, versus just learning about it, instead of just reading about stuff. I don’t think you can beat that.

Mike: Yeah.

James: You know, it was like okay, if you turn around if you’re gonna keep spending $200 a month on trying to learn how to do a business, why not spend a $100 or $200 of that in moving your business forward you know, in getting action going on your business. And this is — unfortunately, this is the huge dilemma. This is why I’m transitioning now in my business. There’s a huge dilemma in our industry because every product that comes out or a ton of the product that comes out — I’m sorry, not every product. But a ton of the products that come out, they keep telling people what they need to do themselves. Now you to do this something. Now, you need to do this, you need to do that. And by the time they’re done man, you know it takes them 30 days to get information and you know, they’re not seeing any results, so it’s just a vicious cycle. They’re still on the same page. Okay, you’re gonna spend this money on this. Why not just go sell your stuff on ebay, you know. You know, get somebody to do this stuff and okay, this month you made $300 form it. Now, take that $300. Okay, take the 50 and grab a dinner. And then, take the other 250 and do the same thing again and grow it bigger. So, this is a thinking for – a thought process that I’m trying to get going to people now and that’s part of what this product is about.

Mike: You know what a lot of people do? They think that if, and I’ve done this, you think that if you’re busy, if you’re writing that article and then your commenting on blogs and then, you’re submitting that blog to RSS feeds and then, you’re going all this stuff and you’re doing this little tasks, you think okay, I’m busy. I’m working. I’m living the internet marketer lifestyle. But you’re just really making yourself busy. You’re giving yourself busy work.

James: Right. You know, the — all of us lived with that. You know, trying to be busy or trying to stay busy because we don’t wanna face the real test or what we need to do. One of the things that I talked about you know, in my personal class, my personal coaching class was that you know, what it takes to really start moving things forward, I likened it to a you know, a rock on the pond. And the reason why these big, massive, mutants are on this tiny little rocket, it’s because it’s trying to get out of an atmosphere and it will. And you know, that one force that’s keeping it from doing that is gravity. And even though gravity is a law, you just can’t miss it. It’s a natural law. You know, if you’re going to overtake a law, you have introduce a greater law. And so, one of the things I you know, kind of parallel that to was online business, like the rock is like an online business. And we have habit gravity, the things that keep us

from reaching another level. And you don’t really notice gravity until you use something that offends it. So, you don’t walk around everyday thinking about hey, that’s gravity, like if you fall of a bike or something.

Mike: Exactly.

James: You don’t really know you own a habit gravity until you start trying to do things that change it. And I think that’s — I’m going on a side note here, that’s one of the biggest challenges for building an online business. It’s just the focus that trying to say you know, on tasks. And that’s what the Outsource System or just outsourcing period can help you do. You know, you get a lot of people that they’ll research for five hours trying to figure out how to do something. You know, how to edit this script or do something like that on Google when okay, that just takes $5 and just go to Odesk or something and just get it done and you know, get over it, get passed it, you know. And so, I think there needs to be a shift in terms of you know, how we do what we do online. And a lot of people want to build a business but I think the real key to really see some success that you want is moving from working in the business and working on and that kind of good management.

Mike: James, it’s been a pleasure having you on the show today. We’ll obviously have notes — in the show notes, we’ll have a link to The Outsource System. Is there anything else that we didn’t get to today that you wanted to mention before we wrap it up?

James: I think we’re good. You know, one of the things that I just want, I would probably encourage people to really do, is really take a long hard look at what you’re trying to build online. And you know, one of the things that I had been teaching a lot of people now is understanding that one of the biggest things — and this is why it’s called The Outsource System is it’s a system. People don’t make money. Systems make money. But people manage systems. You first have to get your systems in place. But once you get the systems in place, then you know what tools you need. I think that’s gonna be a big thing for people if they want to succeed online. Knowing what your system is first, developing your system. And then from there, you know what to do and hopefully The Outsource System could be a part of that.

Mike: Great. Thank you very much, James.

James: Thank you.

Mike: I hope you enjoyed the interview with James. If you’re interested in checking out his Outsource System, go to mikefrommaine.com/outsourcesystem. Thank you for watching and I’ll see you all tomorrow.