Episode 41: Why you need to get off your butt and start a podcast…now! – with Pat Flynn

I’m super pumped to have Pat Flynn on The Mike From Maine Show today! Pat just released his 50th podcast episode so we decided to sit down to talk about the importance of podcasting. We get into some truly interesting stuff like video VS audio, the benefits of transcripts, and a couple stories of Pat being recognized in public. If you want to pay Pat back then just stop by his site and say “Thank you”.

Watch the show below: Duration: 45:10

[leadplayer_vid id=”50A6CB4451A59″]Stuff mentioned in the show



Raw transcript

Interview with Pat Flynn about Starting a Podcast

Mike: Hi there everyone! Welcome to The Mike From Maine Show, the place where we think about income differently. This is your host, Mike Thomas. And today on the show I am super excited. We’ve got Pat Flynn on from the smartpassiveincome.com. If you don’t know who Pat Flynn is, go right now, go and check out his website. There’s gonna be a link to it underneath, on the show notes on mikefrommaine.com. And I mean, Pat is doing what all of us are wanting to be doing online. He’s got multiple sources of income. He’s making money from podcasting, from making web apps, from niche websites and he’s even got courses and stuff going on. So he’s doing, he’s living the dream, he’s making approximately $40,000 a month. So, this is the guy that you need to check out if you’re not already listening to the web, but I assume most of you are already. Anyways, enough of me blabbering, let’s get right to the interview.

Mike: Are you interested in building an authority website but don’t know where to start? If you are, why not check out my $50 Authority Starter Sites for Sale. On this Sales Page, you can scroll down and see that all the urls are now readily available for you to take a look at. If you’re interested in any of them, just go ahead and click on it and the url actually open up in a new page. Now, I’ve removed adsense from these sites, in order to protect my adsense account but they’re all still ready and available to have your adsense put right on them. You can also see the day created, adwords search, adwords CPC and as always, the price is $50 per site. if you’re interested, go over to the buy section and click here to request more information or a Paypal invoice.

Mike: So we’re here today with “the” Pat Flynn. Pat, how are you doing today?

Pat: I’m doing excellent. Thank you, Mike.

Mike: That’s good to hear. Um, we talked before the show how we’re not gonna go over the whole, uh, all your history, how you started making money online. If you’re watching this show, then you should know who Pat Flynn is. And if you don’t know who Pat is, right now go and pause it. There’ll be a link in the show notes, go there, find out who he is and come right back. So…

Pat: Thanks Mike.

Mike: You’re welcome. Um, Pat. First question for you is are you really as nice in real life as you are on your blog?

Pat: Ah, you know, I try to reflect how I am in real life on the online world coz that’s just who I am and I wouldn’t want people to follow me for someone who I am not. So, yeah. I mean, if you wanna call it being nice or honest or whatever, that’s who I am I guess. It’s interesting how everyone talks about how nice I am. You know, I don’t see myself as being overly nice but I guess in the marketing world that I’m in I guess I am seen, or easy to stand out, as a nice guy because everyone is so, you know, it’s easy to be put into that category of being scammy or can car salesman type. And I definitely don’t like that type of people. So, I am just me, (not) being who I don’t wanna be.

Mike: Maybe the reason why people are labeling you as being nice is because you don’t sell things to people. You don’t have that used-car-salesman-internet-marketer personality that is so prevalent everywhere. You know what I mean?

Pat: Yeah, I mean, It’s true. I don’t have any products for sale per se, but I still make a lot of money but it’s done in a way by showing people what I do and then having people choose if they want to or not to follow my advice and I never push anything and I basically let my results speak for themselves and if I do something that doesn’t work out, then great, my audience knows to not do that or do it better than I did or take a different approach. If I do something and that something works out well, people are gonna follow what I do and more than likely, because I’ve shown them the way, they’re going to find out how or work really hard to try and pay me back in one way or another. And again, I don’t have any products yet, but they look for my affiliate links, they share me with their friends and followers and that’s a way for them to feel like they’re paying me back for all the information I gave them.

Mike: Did you say you don’t have a product yet? Is there something in the works there, Pat?

Pat: Yeah. There’s stuff always on the works, you know. Ever since my blog has started to take off, people have been asking me, you know, “Where is your product? Where is your product?”. I mean, that’s what everyone does, is they create a product. So I know if I create something, it’s gonna make money. It’s gonna sell really well but I don’t want the fact that it will make money to force me to do something. I don’t want it to force me to do something fast. So I have been working on something for a while. It’s kinda secret or whatever. I mean, you’ll see it on the blog. I talk about everything on the blog. And when that sort of comes of value, you’ll see it on there but it’s something that I didn’t — it’s just the right time to do it. So, that’s why I’m doing it. I’m not doing it because I know, or want more money or anything like that. It’s something that’s gonna help a lot of people and then will hopefully pay me back in return at the same time.

Mike: I was thinking, before this interview, I was thinking about the questions that I was gonna ask you and I was looking at your blog and it’s really hard Pat trying to think of things to ask you because you give out so much already on the blog. In December of 2008, you wrote a post about wanting to do a podcast. But then, you didn’t get started until July 2010.

Pat: That’s right.

Mike: What happened, Pat? You’re the guy that goes out and does everything and is on top of things and is organized. Huh?

Pat: Well, the podcast for me, it was — the podcast is actually how I got into this business. So it was a podcast I was listening to by an internet business mastery. It was a podcast I was listening to for a year or so, before I got laid off and then started doing my own things. So they really inspired me. That’s how I knew that a podcast was a great way to reach people and connect with people and build a relationship with people. So I’ve always wanted to do it ever since I started the blog, just like you said, December in 2008. And I actually, in that post, I bought podcasting equipment, a sample audio of me saying “Hey guys, this is me. I dunno how I’m gonna sound blah blah blah” and I’m like “I’m gonna do a podcast”. And it took me a year and a half to get it done. The reason why it took so long is — I mean, there’s a number of reasons. One, how to set up a podcast is not as easy as setting up a blog. There’s a lot of technical things that go with it. But that’s one thing. But you know, I could figure that out, how to get over that. Mainly, what the biggest problem was or the biggest hurdle was just conquering my fear of getting behind the microphone. And being comfortable with producing content that other people are gonna listen to. Other people who had never, you know, other people who are going to listen to me. What if I don’t sound great? What if they get sick of my voice? You know, that’s all fear similar to the fear of public speaking. This is sort of like public speaking, except you’re not in front of people. But that fear is still there. And over time, I just realized how much time I was wasting by not publishing a podcast. How much opportunity I was losing. So I just said, screw it, let’s just do it. I figured out how to do it all technically. I reached out and asked people who were into podcasting. You know, just like Jason Maynard and Cliff Ravenscraft from Podcast Answer Man. And I was like, help me set this up, I’m gonna do it, I made it a priority, I did it, I published my first episode on July 2010 and I haven’t looked back since. Just yesterday, I posted my 50th episode after 2.4 —

Mike: Congratulations!

Pat: Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. After 2.4 million downloads. And um, each download is 30 min to an hour long in time. And that’s so much time people listening to me and it has done so much for my brand. And so, looking back I only wish I had started sooner.

Mike: I was listening to an interview with you and you mentioned that it really hit me, like strongly, when you said, you didn’t like listening to the sound of your own voice recorded.

Pat: Who does? I mean, nobody does, right? Like, anyone who records themselves and listened to themselves was like, “Oh my gosh, is that really what I sound like?” And that’s what I was going through when I first started and that’s part of that, I mean, I go back I can listen to that recording on that video and I just like cringe, it’s like so terrible. And even some of my first videos of the same way, I just can’t listen to them and if you have followed me for a while, you would see or feel or hear the progression of how much better I am getting better behind the microphone and it has helped me so much in all other aspects of my life. It has helped me conquer the fear of actually public speaking in person and I’ve been doing a lot of that lately. Something I never thought I was ever gonna do. It’s better in my personal life, with communicating with friends and family, like I can more easily convey ideas and it’s helping me understand just how people communicate with each other. It’s ridiculous how incredible this whole podcasting thing is and what it has done for me, more so than just online business stuff.

Mike: It’s almost like a way for you to just sit down and reflect upon your own business and what you’re doing and get things in perspective.

Pat: Right and when you say things out loud, it clicks. You know, you could think anything you want but when you say it out loud, then you hear yourself talk about these things, it reinforces these little ideas or it makes you think twice about those ideas and makes you just expand on what you already and learn and you even start to learn new things as you’re talking. Like, you know, just things start going, like you start turning and subconsciously, new stuff comes out that would have never come out otherwise. And it’s the same thing as you know doing a brain dump or a — what they call a mind map. There’s just dumping all your ideas out there and not holding back, you get to see a lot of cool ideas that you wouldn’t have known were there. Same thing with listening to yourself on a podcast or audio recording.

Mike: Do you, after you record your podcast, I don’t think you do too much editing to it but do you sit there and listen to it all the way through again before you publish it?

Pat: Sometimes, I do and the primary reason I do that is because I didn’t — before I record, I didn’t take show notes. I don’t have the list of links or resources, so I need to go in and relisten to do that, but — when I needed just for the purpose of the show notes, I actually use VLC Player to speed up the recording like four times, so I can save like a ton of time and just get the resources really quick. But, sometimes, even if I do get the show notes beforehand or have all the links and resources, I will listen to myself just for, you know, to hear how things are going and my delivery. You know, I’ll listen to, I won’t listen to the whole thing usually coz I already said it. If it is an interview, I will because I’ll learn a lot of things, you know, when you’re conducting an interview you’re thinking about what the next question is and stuff and so you’re not fully processing everything at the person you’re interviewing and saying. So, I’ll go back and listen to the great interviews I’ve done and pick up stuff that I didn’t realize the person was saying although I was hearing it, I wasn’t actually listening, if that makes sense.

Mike: It’s kinda like when you wrote a post about interviewing people actually and you talked about how you can sometimes daze off a little bit well. People are talking and then, one time I remember I was doing an interview this guy was just going on and on and on, he was interesting but he was just talking for a long time, one of my longer interviews. And I just got to the point where I zoned down a little bit —

Pat: You felt, what am I gonna have for dinner tonight?

Mike: Yeah, exactly. I was like, that would be good. And then, he asked, he asked me a question. He’s like, “Yeah, you know, like this, right? He was like, so it should be —?” And he was looking at me, and I was like, “Uhh… I don’t know what the answer is.”

Pat: Wait, who’s interviewing who here?

Mike: Yeah, exactly. I was like, wait a minute, give me back my authority. But yeah, you’re right about that. A question that popped in my head here was, do you ever, when you’re in public, have people come up to you and, I’m not talking like in expo or like a business event, people come up to you and go, “Hey, Pat Flynn! Blah blah blah.”

Pat: Ah, two times. It has only happened two times and I’m okay with that. I don’t really want that to happen. I don’t wanna be, you know, paparazzi-status. I mean, yeah there’s cool things that go along with that but you know, I’m a family man, I enjoy being with my family and I want our family life to be as private as possible. Even though I do share a lot about my family to become personal and build a relationship with my audience. So, I mean, there’s a line there obviously. But it’s happened twice. One time, at Trader Joe’s, I was putting groceries into my car and a guy tapped me on my shoulder and say, “Hey, are you Pat Flynn?” And I was like, “Yes.” I listen to your podcast! He actually said, “I’m listening to your podcasts.” And that’s the first thing he said, he didn’t say, “I read your blog or I say your interviews.” But he said, “I listen to your podcasts”. Yeah, so I point that out because it is interesting. So, the other thing I’m thinking about is, okay, you’re listening to me on a podcast, how did you know what I look like? And so, obviously, he is also reading my blog too. So, that’s why I highly value the podcast because it’s a great way to get new people to discover you and then go to your blog and read your stuff. I mean, if you’re just sticking with your blog, you’re losing out all the potential traffic and subscribers and readers and customers if you’re not reaching out to places like iTunes. But anyway, so that was one time at Trader Joe’s, another time I was at Cold Stone Creamery here at San Diego.

Mike: Both delicious places that you are going to. That both places have amazing food.

Pat: Yeah, one is a little more healthy than the other. But I was at Cold Stone and I was getting ice cream and this guy is like, “Are you Pat Flynn?”. I was like, “Yeah”. Oh that was cool, I’m actually here on vacation from Arizona. I read your blog, I love your stuff. I have a website and you’ve helped me out. And I was like, that’s awesome to hear. And then, so my family was there with me, like, who is this guy, like how did you know this person because my in-laws were there with me. They don’t know exactly like how I am online or that I have this persona or this kind of celebrity status I guess from online. They were like, who is that guy? So I have to explain to them, you know why I have this brand you know, a lot of people follow what I do and every once in a while people will come up to me and it’s cool but yeah, at expos, it’s a little overwhelming. People will come up to me and – I’m still not use to it, they will come up to me and talk all about me and say, oh how’s April doing? How’s Connie doing, my son (15:10). And I’m, it’s a little weird. I will admit, it’s a little weird to know that these people like know the names of my family but then I have to remember, you know, my blog. And although I’ve never met them in person, I want to be their friend even before I actually meet them. And so, that’s why that happens and um, it is pretty cool, I mean, I’m not gonna lie and say, you know, that I do not enjoy it. But I am not gonna let it into my head either and you know, get bigheaded or anything, hopefully. And if I do, you are welcome to just call me out on it.

Mike: I’ll slap your wag a little bit of that happens. (15:48)

Pat: Yeah, please do.

Mike: Here’s the thing though, which is kinda interesting that you mentioned here. On two levels, okay, you’ve mentioned one, that the first person who saw you had been listening to your podcast, that’s how they knew you. The second one, which is kinda interesting is that person came up to you and they’ve already developed a feeling of rapport with you. They already have a relationship with you. Maybe it is not a full relationship that is reciprocated on your end, but they already have that feeling of trust that you’ve built through your website, through your podcast. That’s pretty amazing.

Pat: It is. I mean, when you get people who you don’t know coming up to you and saying thank you, that is like amazing. It just shows you how powerful producing content online can be and how many lives you can actually change, how many lives you can make better, how much better you can make the world if you have something of value to share with people. And it’s just really, really cool to go, I mean, I love getting thank you’s. That’s what I work for, coz I know the more thank you’s I get from people, whether they’re emails or hand — I actually have a pile of handwritten thank you notes that I collect. And my goal is to just get more of that. I actually get one in the mail today. I actually hold this all up and these are all handwritten thank you notes and thank you cards from people, from their businesses and blogs who have used my advice and who just wanted to thank me.

Mike: You got one today, Pat?

Pat: I got one today, actually. Yeah.

Mike: Do you have it with you right there? Like, can you show a part of it with us or —?

Pat: It’s downstairs but um, let me find one here.

Mike: Sure.

Pat: A couple of these are thank you for taking the time to meet with me. Here we go. I don’t know if you could see that. Your website and podcast have been a tremendous help to my company. Thank you for the information and your time. Ralph Rodriguez.

Mike: And they are not asking you for anything from you. They’re not saying, “Oh, can you link to my website? Can you show me how to do this?”

Pat: No.

Mike: They’re just saying thanks, that’s it. That’s nice.

Pat: Sometimes I get a business card and and offer and stuff that come along with it. Sometimes, people will give me stuff. Just today – uh, no, not today, um, sorry. When my daughter was born, I got four or five packages from people with baby stuff, like a blanket or, one was actually a blanket with personalized name on it, which is awesome. The other day, I got a thank you card saying, thank you you’ve helped my business, he was actually a person who owns multiple businesses. He actually said, I make a lot of money but because of you, I make a lot more. Like that is awesome. And he put a little hundred dollar American Express gift card in it. And I was like, dude, this is so amazing and to know the more I give away, the more I get back in return. And again, I’m shooting for more thank you letter. Like that’s what I want. I have a – actually, I need to go and get it.

Mike: Go get it, go get it. What do you have?
Pat: I have this ah, this little — one guy sent me the first dollar he ever made and he framed it for me. Mike: The first dollar he ever made, he sent to you.

Pat: He sent to me, yeah coz I mean, he made virtual dollars because he has websites but he sent me a dollar and that gesture, it just means so much to me. And again, that’s all I want. But I also know, that the more thank you’s I got, the more I know that what I’m saying means something, that I’m actually doing what I should be doing. Sorry, I just went off a little bit.

Mike: No, no. I think it is really interesting.

Pat: I really enjoyed this.
Mike: No, no. It’s good. I like it. I think my readers will like it too. Okay, let’s get into the podcast stuff a little bit more here. Pat: Alright.

Mike: When do you think someone should start a podcast, Pat? Is it as soon as they start a blog, as soon as they have a business because here’s the thing, I wanna preface this with a lot of people, they always are saying things like start a list, start a list, start a list. And now I’m feeling like the new thing is like, start a podcast, start a podcast, start a podcast. And the biggest problem is, okay, you wanna start a list, you wanna start a podcast but you don’t have an audience. You maybe don’t have anything to say yet, so when do you do it?

Pat: It’s great that you bring up the list because the list is important and I think that it needed to be there when you start anything, a blog, a podcast, a video channel or whatever because you wanna take that audience that you’re building, all of those platforms and get them into a list, so that you can all know them later. But the thing is, building a list, I mean, all you have to do is set it up and that takes you, you know, an hour or whatever. If you’re starting from scratch maybe a couple of hours. And then, all you have to do is start putting people into an open forum but where are you gonna get all those people from? And the same thing with the blog, I mean, a blog is great and it’s a great way to reach people and build community and the blog for me, and I think for a lot of people, is the hub, is the home, you know. It is where you bring people back to because when people are watching a video, or especially if they are listening to your audio podcast, they’re not gonna be necessarily in front of their computer. And you know, I mean, they can’t click on an audio link that you’d say. They have to go back somewhere and that’s your blog. But, if you’re just sticking with your blog, it’s sort of like, this is a metaphor, it’s sort of like putting a message in a bottle and then throwing it into the ocean, nobody knows it’s there until the tides take it to wherever people end are. And you know, sometimes that tide doesn’t take it anywhere. Sometimes, it brings that bottle right back to you. And so the point is to don’t put that message in a bottle and throw it out there and hope, and just yourself on platforms where people are already existing. There’s a great quote by Sidney Lanier, I think he is an American author, it is “If you want to be found, stand where the seekers seek.” Stand where the seekers seek. So go to the places where people are looking for people or brands just like you. And one of those places is iTunes so I would absolutely say, long story short, long explanation short, start a podcast as soon as you can. As soon as you are comfortable, even before you are comfortable with speaking on a microphone because you’re gonna improve drastically over time and you should start now because the platform is still way under surd, it’s so untapped. If you have any sort of content that you put out on iTunes, you’re going to be in the New and Noteworthy Section. Every podcasts that I have seen created has been in the New and Noteworthy Section since I started because —

Mike: I’m in the New and Noteworthy Section. Pat: Right now? Nice. Fist bump.
Mike: I’m only two months old here.

Pat: That’s great dude and that’s so much exposure where people are looking for stuff like you have to offer. I mean, and iTunes is a search engine too, so the more you can incorporate keywords into what you produce, whether it’s your show or your description or your title, the more people are gonna find you. I mean, I ranked no. 1 for blogging, and no.1 for online business and iTunes which is crazy. And you know, and iTunes much like Amazon, has a great *** (2:14) for people who listen to this show, also listen to this show, so then you start to get exposure from people, you know, you get cross exposure with other shows and your brand just grows like crazy and again, it doesn’t happen overnight you sleep, you have to produce something amazing. If you just, you know, put crap out there, you’re gonna get crap results. You know, you wanna put out something amazing. Something that is shareable, note- worthy and then things will start to happen.

Mike: I think that’s where a lot of people have a hard time, though. It’s like, they think to themselves, ok I wanna do this podcast, I wanna get out there, I wanna build that relationship with people but they don’t know necessarily what they’re gonna talk about coz it’s not like you’re sitting down and having conversation with someone. Like an interview podcast is much easier, I think, than doing – —

Pat: Oh, yeah.

Mike: — necessarily a podcast where you’re just sitting there by yourself, speaking into the microphone and just saying your thoughts. I mean, you have no one to bounce anything off of and no one to fill those voids when you might not necessarily have anything to say.

Pat: Yeah, that’s a great point. You know, doing the solo shows is pretty difficult. I mean, it is a lot harder than interviews. It is a lot harder not having a partner on. And I dunno that many people who do, I mean more people do interview shows. And that’s great. And if you are not confident in your skills right now to do a solo show, don’t do a solo show. But you know what, you can still provide amazing content by getting other people on your show. And guess what, all you need to is ask the right questions.

Mike: Yup.
Pat: They’re gonna produce the content for you just like I’m producing for you right now on Mike Show. Mike: Thank you.

Pat: You’re welcome. And you know, some podcasters started their business by interviewing other people. David Garlan from Rise To the Top, Andrew Warner from Mixergy, Jaime Tardy from Eventual Millionaire whose from Maine as well. And yeah, I mean, their content is great but they’re just asking the right questions but that doesn’t mean it’s gonna be easy. You still have to do your research and ask the right questions and follow up with people and actually stay in tune with people who you you’re interviewing. But that’s what I would recommend and you could still provide great content to your audience without you having to talk the whole time. And the nice thing about bringing other people on is that they’ll be thankful for being on your show or they’ll be excited to be on your show, they might break some interesting news to you that has not been mentioned anywhere else. They’ll add a different flavor to your content. Yeah, I would absolutely do — I mean, I would just say do the interviews if you don’t want to do solo shows. You don’t have to do solo shows.

Mike: But here’s the thing, for your show, you do half solo and half interviews. Is there a reason for that or is that just kind of how it’s turned out?

Pat: It’s just because sometimes I just wanna talk on my own and I don’t know or I don’t feel the need to bring someone else on sometimes, and the other half is someone has an amazing story to share or they know something that I don’t know much that about but I wanna share with my audience. So I’ll bring them on board, like how I brought Louis Hollis (26:24) on board to talk about ah, to talk about Webinars. Sometimes I bring people in who people know already, like Louis who is an expert, and sometimes I bring people who nobody knows. And those are actually the podcast that people enjoy the most, success stories from people that they’ve never heard of before because it just shows that anyone can do it, you know. There’s some great, like some people making six figures from scrapbooking and creating website or wedding directories, there was a guy who was a chef who built like one of the largest membership sites for recipes online. It’s just, you can do anything, really. And that’s what those interviews show. So, half me, half interviews. That’s my style and the thing is with your own podcast, you just gotta find your own style and you’ll get into the groove. Will you get into the groove after the first one, two or three episodes? Probably not, it will take a little bit more recording to figure out what you enjoy the most or how you watch your show that’ll best instruct you (27:21).

Mike: Your podcast is strictly audio. Why not video? Why not go the David Segment Garland route? Why not do, I think, Jamie Tardy, the people that you’ve mentioned, Mixergy, Andrew Warner also does video. Why is Pat Flynn doing audio and not video?

Pat: Ok, the thing with video is, especially with the interviews? It’s like, or even with just solo shows, like what is the value of staring at two people’s faces for 45 minutes, right?

Mike: Wait, we’re not, we’re not beautiful Pat? Pat: No, we are. I mean, you are beautiful. Mike: Oh well, you are too, you are too.

Pat: I mean, no offense. But I’m just saying, like, you know, we’re just — people are staring at the same thing for the whole time. They can get the same content without having to do that and more likely than not a lot of times people who are watching those video or interview aren’t watching the video the whole time.

Mike: What? Hey, everyone. Come back to the video, right now. Come back. Stop playing on facebook. Come back to the video.

Pat: That’s good. I bet there are some people who are on facebook now. So if you, I think that if you’re gonna do video podcast, you would have to make it dynamic. Something that people would want to look into. Something that people would be afraid of not watching. You know, I can confidently say that people could, not your show specifically, but people can listen to talking heads without having to look at them and they’re gonna get exact same information unless I have some visuals or something going on,

then it would be more interesting. So that’s why I don’t do the videos, but also because audio, you know, audio — it’s just, when you think about people who are in their cars, who travel, they’re not gonna be able to watch video. People at the gym, unless they are on a treadmill or something, they have both of their hands tied up and doing, you know, chest lifts, or whatever, bench presses. Chest lifts. I’ve never said that before. And so, with audio, you can actually be with people no matter what they’re doing. Maybe they’re mopping the floor at the house, or just going on a jog or a walk or something and you know, they don’t wanna be staring down the whole time. And that’s why I prefer audio over video. And I don’t, you know — I enjoy video, but not for the purposes of what I do on my podcast. I enjoy videos and creating video content to share tutorials, to share people how to do things, step by step stuff. Every once in a while, I’ll throw my face on my youtube channel just to make sure that, yeah, so people can see who I am. And when you see someone’s face you just develop a relationship with them, but those videos are five to ten minutes long, max. And I don’t show my face the entire time. I usually pen out and go to different things and whatnot. But again, staring 45 minutes at our face, it doesn’t seem like that has add too much value unless you’re like, I mean, if I was a girl and I was watching Channing Tatum or something, then yeah. That will make sense. But – um —

Mike: Yeah — and that’s, if you’re doing that right now, come back to the video as well. Get off facebook, get off watching videos there. One thing that I’d like to say Pat, though, is that let’s just take this interview that we are doing here for example, it’s the easiest thing we can. There’s been part, I agree with you, a lot of things I agree with you, like you could pretty much just listen to this interview that we are doing now and get most everything out of it. I mean, I also release on iTunes podcast for people who just wanna listen to it, because there are people who don’t wanna watch it on their computer or they don’t wanna look at me the whole time. But there’s things that you’ve done during this, like you were able to go and kind of grab that thank you letter. People are able to see if you are smiling, if you’re into it, if you’re bored. I mean, they’re able to see exactly how you’re feeling and those other things. So, I don’t necessarily think that they are completely necessary but they do add in something else and there’s an option if someone does wanna watch, if that’s the way that someone does wanna consume the media and if you do wanna be everywhere, then that’s a way of being in another place.

Pat: Yeah, that’s true. I mean, if you wanna syndicate the same content on different platforms, that makes sense. Absolutely. I wouldn’t be able to do that through audio but the thing is, that that stays in the video. People who are watching that are still watching the video and they are not on our website yet. With an audio, it forces, people, if you say, I have a picture, it’s the most amazing picture, I mean, it just means the world to me that you have to check it out. Here’s a quick link for it. They would either remember that because you would make it simple or you would go, go to show notes and get that link to get that image or go to the show notes I have a picture of the first dollar that someone sent me. People are gonna actually go to the site —

Mike: To see that image.

Pat: Just to see that eventually. And, they’re gonna be on where everything else happens in your brand, where you sell stuff, where you can get a subscriber, where you can get them to read more stuff and get them more involved. That’s where you can also show your personality as well. I mean, one of the first — I talk a lot about my podcasts, my getting started page. My getting started page has a video right up front that has me saying thank you for coming up into the website. Read the information below, see what you can expect, so on and so forth. And that’s a video that people are watching on my site. And so, I think, you know, we can argue about this for a long time but —

Mike: Forever!

Pat: I think you’re absolutely right. I think the most important thing just in general is to make sure you are providing great content no matter what media it is, and also driving people back to your website and somehow, also being personable and you know, injecting your own self and your content, whether it’s video or audio. And the thing with audio too is you can, not quite as easy as with video, you know, being able to see someone’s smile but you can hear someone’s smile.

Mike: Yeah, you’re right.

Pat: You can actually see someone’s smile though I think the point is, if you’re just writing, you need to be doing something else. Video or Audio.

Mike: That’s totally true. You mentioned your show notes and that makes me think of transcripts. So, you do transcripts for each of your shows that you have available for the people that don’t wanna listen they can go and read. How much are you paying to get those transcribed and do you think it is absolutely necessary to do?

Pat: I don’t think it is absolutely necessary, like if you don’t do transcripts your show it is not gonna fall apart. But I know I have a large number of hearing-impaired listeners or hearing-impaired readers who wouldn’t be able to listen to podcasts. So, for them,

specifically, I’m in a great place where I know I can afford to create a transcript and provide for them and I’m grateful I can do that. Not everyone is gonna have the money to do transcripts. If you can’t, like I wouldn’t spend my last few dollars in my business to do transcripts for your podcasts. it’s not gonna make a huge dramatic effect on your blog but it’s gonna be that little extra, you know, a cherry on top that’s gonna show that you are serious about what you are producing. You are serious about your content and that you are there to help people no matter how they wanna listen to your content. Now, I’m paying my person, you know, I’ve actually gone through four different transcribers. I found someone on e-lance for $.75 per minute for a while and he was okay but there was a lot of mistakes and I got emails back from people who just read the transcripts saying there’s obvious mistakes and that is bad reflection on me. So I dumped that guy. Then, there was a transcription service that I signed up for which was a dollar a minute and that was okay.

Mike: What service was that?
Pat: Ah, that was, it was a while ago. I can’t even remember. I think, I’m sorry. I’ll —
Mike: Is it the same with Andrew uses over Mixergy . There’s one that he uses. I can’t remember it on top of my head.

Pat: I don’t know but the service was good and it was automated. It was more automated. I could just upload the audio file or give them a link to it and then a couple of days later, it will come back to me. It will always come back to me in plain text format or not formatted. So now, I have a great VA, her name is Rebecca Livermore (36:14) she takes my podcast, she listens to them and transcribes them. She makes sure to hyperlink every single link that I mention and she formats it in PDF that is branded for my brand. So it just looks a lot more professional.

Mike: She sounds perfect.

Pat: She sounds perfect, yeah. And ah, she charges $1.50 per minute which is quite, it’s on the high end but for me, I think it’s worth it for what I’m doing. And so, you might wanna test out all those, the different ranges and see what works for you. I mean, you might find a VA on e-lance who just loves to do what they do who would do it perfectly. You kinda take your chances whenever you go to e-lance or Odesk, It’s not necessary to do transcription but I really make sure to try and get it done.

Mike: Do you find that you’re getting a SEO value from it? It’s gonna show up as a lot more content on your page and you’re gonna get incoming searches form people picking up that text?

Pat: You will if you do it but it’s minimal. You know, like I said, it is not gonna drastically change anything and, excuse me, right now I just have them as downloadable PDF so they’re not even read by Google. For a while, I was doing that and a couple of things happened. One, it just made the blog post extremely long and so it messed up the size of my feeds coz in feedburner, I guess for podcast feeds it has to be under 512 kB and just 40 minutes of text which is overload for the ten episodes that we’re showing on the feed. And now I have 50 in the feed, so it definitely wouldn’t work. And there are ways you can link to a new page with the transcript, but then you know I just wanna make it as easy as possible for people and a PDF that people can read wherever they’re at is I just find it to be much easier. I mean, it’s just the way it works for me, so —

Mike: Well yeah, you have nice reasons why you’re doing. You have guests that are hearing impaired, so you’re not necessarily, it sounds like, you’re not necessarily including it for the SEO value. You’re including it as a service for your guests.

Pat: Yes.
Mike: For your readers. Last question for you, Pat. Pat: Sure.

Mike: You were recently nominated for the People’s Choice Category and Business Category Awards for The Podcasts Awards, which is being held at The New Media Expo. And you’ve been recently calling out to your readers to vote for this quite often. Why has this been so important for you? It’s unlike you to be asking like this and I just felt, wow, Pat must really want this.

Pat: I do really want it and it’s funny coz just yesterday — today is the last day to vote. It’s the 15th, so if it’s after the 15th and you want to vote, I appreciate it but you can’t. But I told my readers yesterday on facebook, I was like, you know, thank you so much for all those support. I normally don’t solicit like this but it would just mean the world to me and thank you. I’ve got nothing but positive responses, saying this is the least we could do for you. Thank you so much for what you do. I’m gonna vote for you every single day. And the reason why it means so much to me is just ‘cause I’ve been working really hard for this podcast. It’s something that means a

lot to me. It would be great to be recognized, kind of beyond my readers, beyond the people who already know me about what I do. And so this award, which is a pretty prestigious award, you know, it’s not about the old man of traffic (39:39) that’s gonna come over after I win. It’s not about that at all. It’s about being able to just say, and especially against with, like in the business section, I know I’m up against Dave Ramsey and Freakonomics and those popular people. I mean, that’s something that I would be able to say, like I won The 8th annual podcast awards in the business section and I beat out Dave Ramsey, I beat out Freakonomics. It would just be so much social proof and I’m kind of setting myself up for the future when I plan to do a little more of speaking. You know, I know that this opportunity is gonna give me access to more people than I would have access to before. People with larger audiences. And again, the purpose isn’t, even though I know it’s gonna help me get more traffic and subscribers and readers, you know. The purpose is I wanna reach as many people as possible because I know that I can help improve a lot of people’s lives. I mean, I have proof in the thank you notes and I want more thank you notes. That’s I want more thank you notes.

Mike: Send Pat thank you notes. Even if you don’t know why, send him a thank you note.

Pat: Yes, that’s why it means a lot to me. And you know, I’m a pretty competitive person. A lot of people don’t notice about me online but I’m really a competitive person.

Mike: Sports? Or just a — academics? Or —

Pat: Anything. Like, I will be in my kid’s play room and I will just be like, okay I have to make ten shots in a row from across the room. It’s a Little Tikes Basketball, like that’s the kind of person I am. I just have to, not to like beat people, I’m just like very competitive, I enjoy that fantasy footbball has been my life since football season has started. And I’ve always done sports —

Mike: Are you winning, Pat? In fantasy football?

Pat: I am in second place right now. Actually, I’m tied — no, I’m second place, I have the same record as the person in first place but he has more points than me. And um —

Mike: What about board games?

Pat: I play board games. I play all kinds of —

Mike: Which board games do you play?

Pat: You know, first-person shooter games. Um, I like Life is a good board game.

Mike: That’s a classic one that no one ever wants to play. Like –

Pat: Dude, let’s go play.

Mike: We’ll play some day online. I’ll kick your ass.

Pat: I win the Lotto and all these cool things and have like four kids.

Mike: Damn it, I need a bigger car. Oh Pat, is there anything else that you wanted to cover today that we missed? Anything that you wanted to share?

Pat: Really, just with your podcast, if you’re gonna start a podcast and I hope you do if you haven’t already or even if you have one, just be real. Just be yourself, have fun with it, just your content and how you deliver. It’s gonna be so much better. It’s not gonna be forced. You can hear when people don’t mean the things they say or — and even if you’re timid, that’s ok. You know, just put yourself out there, make things happen. In Tim Ferriss’ book 4-Hour Workweek, as an example of him just saying that you know, you gotta get uncomfortable in order for things to progress in your business. There’s examples he uses where, it’s like an exercise, at the end of all of the chapters are exercises. One of the exercises was to go to a public place, like a mall, and just lay down there on the ground. Just let people walk by you. Just lay down and get into that uncomfortable feeling. The point of that is to train yourself just to put yourself in sort of situations that will sort of make you feel uncomfortable, knowing that things like public speaking, starting a podcast, doing videos, things that we would normally fear or choose not to do, it would force us to take that and *** it (43:14).

Mike: That’s great advice. It’s when you do the things that you’re scared of. Like no one else, how many other people, I mean, how many other people are doing what we’re doing now? Getting in front of the camera, putting yourself out there, making mistakes,

looking silly sometimes. But, it’s fine. We’re all human beings, you just have to put yourself on those situations and great things happen.

Pat: Absolutely. You have to believe in yourself too. Because if you ah, whether you think you can or you can’t, you’re absolutely right.

Mike: That’s true, Pat. That’s true.

Pat: Yeah, that’s why ah, I don’t know if you could see it but there’s a, I have a board up there it actually says that, it says whether you think you can or you can’t.

Mike: It’s right there, I can see it.

Pat: It’s a quote by Henry Ford. That’s how I live by.

Mike: Oh, Pat. Thank you so much for coming in the show today. I really appreciate it. You can all check Pat out on smartpassiveincome.com. Is there a preferred way that you would like to be reached? Is it Facebook? Twitter? Email?

Pat: Yeah, facebook is great. Twitter is great as well. facebook.com/smartpassiveincome or @patflynn on twitter. Mike: Awesome. Thanks again, Pat.
Pat: Thanks.

Mike: I hope you all really enjoyed the interview today with Pat. Make sure you go ahead and check out his website smartpassiveincome.com and also go ahead and check out his course on podcasting. All links to both of those in the show notes on mikefrommaine.com and also, just a little announcement. I have a contest coming up in the near future. If you go to mikefrommaine.com/free, I’ll also link up to that on the show notes, you can see that I have started putting up some of the different prizes that I’ll be giving away next month from past casts that had been on the show. Anyways, I just wanted to give you a sneak peek about what’s to come so make sure you sign up for the list and I’ll see you all on Monday.

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  1. Hey there, so happy to see you did this interview. That is a great one and glad I get the chance to hear it and watch it.

  2. Great interview, Mike!

    I loved your first question, “Are you genuinely that nice?”, lol. I asked the same thing of Dan Andrews and Chris Ducker who both came back with a resounding yes. I think it’s important to note, though, that while Pat’s nice…it doesn’t take away from an aggressive pursuit of a solid business strategy. It’s a great example as to how you can be both nice and strategic.

    By the way…you guys totally called me out…was checking out Facebook while listening to the interview! lol You brought me back, though.

    1. Justin,

      Pat is just a genuinely good person which comes out through his business strategy.

      Haha,it’s totally fine that you were on your Facebook. I don’t expect everyone to be watching the whole time, but I think it’s interesting sometimes to actually see what some of my guests look like/act like etc. Plus I like being on camera 😉

      1. Haha I was actually cooking scrambled eggs and doing the washing up while listening! I love being able to multi task while listening to your show. Another great show. Your both inspirational guys. Thanks 🙂

  3. This is an awesome interview, very inspiring . I really hope to be where you guys are some day.
    But for now, lets just focus on learning the basic like how to market my sites well. haha
    but thanks for these great inteviews


  4. Thanks for having me on the show Mike! It was a fun interview. I haven’t really talked much about podcasting in interviews so it was refreshing and you asked some great questions. I’m sure we could have talked for hours! 🙂

    1. Pat,

      Thanks for coming on…I was hoping to ask you different questions than you’re usually asked. I hope that our viewers were able to get some value out of it.

  5. I have to admit, I’m not usually watching either. I’m usually making lunch, or working in another window getting some mindless work out of the way!

  6. Pat is wrong about one thing. Some people do try to watch, errr… “listen” on YouTube while driving…. a semi truck. Just saying.

    Fabulous interview guys!

  7. Yet another awesome interview. Thanks Mike.

    Your new website design is amazing dude. When your site loaded, it was amazing to view with the new design (very impressive)

    How much it cost you?

  8. Mike, thank you for this video with Pat!
    I’m still considering whether to do a video or audio podcast. Although it’s true that I always end up doing something else while listening to the video interviews, I’m much more prone to start following sites with videos.

    1. Marina,

      I think that both ways are amazing ways of connecting with an audience. You don’t necessarily have to use video, but I think having it as an option makes a website look more professional and engaging.

      Plus, there’s also an option for those who don’t want to watch to listen via iTunes. It’s a win-win!

  9. Great Interview with Pat, he had a really interesting point about the audio vs. video comparison when it comes to interviews and doing Podcasts. I’m going to have to subscribe to your Podcast on Itunes.

    1. John,

      To be honest, I mostly LISTEN to shows that have video versions on the net, but there’s just something extra there when you have the option to watch. Plus, I think it makes the actual interview more interesting as the interviewer can see and respond to the non-verbal communication of the interviewee.

  10. Hey Mike, I already watched this interview on YouTube and got a lot ouf of it so thank you for doing it!

    It was really cool to see Pat talking about something else (like being recognized on the street, board games and all that stuff at the end) so I truly enjoyed checking this out.

    Great job man and I just had to subscribe to your site, now I want more! 😉


    PS. Going to check out the other interview with Derek Halpern.

    1. Sergio,

      It’s really nice getting comments like this. I really enjoyed the interview with Pat, too. He’s an amazing guy.

      Be sure to let me know what you think of the interview with Derek in the comments there.

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